Ford. Sometimes I think you want to fail! : culture|garage

Ford. Sometimes I think you want to fail!

January 11, 2008

Posted by Pat

Tags: wait, what?

The Black Mustang Club is a large Mustang forum for people who worship Mustangs, Ford’s bread and butter. Like a lot of large forums, they made a calendar of member’s cars to sell. Sounds ok, right?

Well, Ford’s lawyers called them up and said that’s a no no.

From BMC administrator/owner Lisa:

“I’m sorry, but at this point we will not be producing the 2008 BMC Calendar, featuring our 2007 Members of the Month, solely due to Ford Motor Company’s claim that THEY own all rights to the photos YOU take of YOUR car. I hope to resolve this soon, and be able to provide the calendar and other BMC merchandise that you guys want and deserve!”

I think Ford is shooting themselves in the foot here. BMC did order the calendars from CafePress, which doesn’t allow any brand name items to be printed, but from the wording here, it seems Ford would be mad at calendars being printed anywhere.

Read the whole thing after the jump.

Here’s the link to the original forum thread. As expected, there’s some choice words for Ford in there.

I guess they just don’t like free advertising.

Black Mustang Club calendar link:

http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402

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35 Responses to “Ford. Sometimes I think you want to fail!”

Chris Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Wow! Shame on Ford. Nothing like pissing off your enthusiasts who preach the brand to their friends and family. Terrible F for Ford.
Pat Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

I edited it because it appears they go after Cafepress, which is normal. But the wording makes it seem that the owners don’t own the rights and that Ford would prohibit this calendar wherever it was printed, which is bogus.
Mike S. Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

I’ve never been a fan of American cars… but this makes me want to go out, buy a Mustang, and post pictures of it all over the internet/make t-shirts with it on them.
John Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

Coming down on an enthusiast site is the WRONG way to generate a loyal fanbase. Lots of companies do this though, it’s sad. Look at iwsti.com, Subaru told us we can’t call it imprezawrxsti.com but that’s fine now since that was a ridiculously long url
FemaleRacingNews Says:
January 11th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

IF Ford is in the right, then every magazine in the country/world is subject to a lawsuit.
blix Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 11:41 am

ford trademarked its ford oval and mustang pony logo. using these trademarks to sell calendars is profiting off of ford’s trademarks, which it’s looking to stop. i know that these owners paid good money for their cars, and it’s unfair, but legally it doesn’t matter.

i can see ford going after cafepress because cafepress is solely a commercial business, but if the site were to publish these calendars internally, it might not be so problematic. most companies don’t pursue enthusiast sites - for obvious reasons - and if the website internally published a calendar and ford came after it, i believe it would be difficult to prove that the site was “in the business” of profit when this was a one-time thing.

in principle, this sucks. and i’m surprised that ford would pull this crap especially since there are so few people out there willing to buy fords.
blix Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 11:43 am

btw i’m not a lawyer so i could be wrong, but that’s usually how this trademark stuff works.
nope Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 2:15 pm

Apparently blix drank ford’s lawyer’s koolaid this morning…..The law is murky, and biased toward who can spend more money….but the internet is deep, and it is wide, and quite capable of making ford sorry their lawyers opened their stupid pie holes. I’m off to post this story on every ford related forum I can think of, as well as many that are not. I think I’ll go to ford-trucks.com first ….then on a dozen or more forums (some gun forums, some motorcycle forums, some hunting forums, some texas forums)…maybe even youtube. Screw ford’s lawyers.
nope Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

well it’s already on slashdot….a site visited by a paltry million or two people a day. And they hate stupid companies. They hate stupid lawyers even worse. Blix, have you figured out the specifics of copyright/trademark infringement, or are you still guessing and then handing that out as free advice?
delusionofgrandeur » Ford owns your photos Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

[...] Ford has sent a legal notice to the Black Ford Mustang enthusiasts club who took photographs of their own cars and then made a calendar, using said photographs, via the CafePress platform. [...]
Photography vs. Trademark Insanity!! @ Objectivity Unhinged Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

[...] a return to the normally scheduled programming, I’d like to bring your attention to a story relating to the wonderful Ford Motor Company, who have decided to follow Porsche previous actions by suing or enforcing trademark on one of [...]
blix Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

what ford’s doing sucks. i’m not siding with them. but do some research on westlaw and lexis/nexis and tell me otherwise. i would love to hear a differing opinion b/c i’m all for the BMC owners.
Rich Wilson Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

The issue isn’t trademark, it’s copyright. Nobody is using Blue Ovals to sell Toyotas. Someone is trying to use pictures of Blue Ovals to sell calendars.

For example, the city of Paris copyrighted the lights on the Eiffel Tower. Since the tower was already built, the couldn’t copyright the tower, but they did copyright the lights when they were added. Hence, it is illegal to sell a picture of the Eiffel tower taken at night without permission.

The one thing I think we can all agree on is that it’s a really really dumb PR move by Ford.
matt Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

This would be a great publicity stunt. Deny the letter after everyone goes out and puts millions of black mustang photos on tshirts, coffee cups and you name it in protest.
ppn Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

last time i looked, ANY pictures I take belong to me no matter what the subject matter is.

Sorry, but ford has over stepped it’s boundaries and your rights.
dt Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

I would be interested in seeing the actual complaint from Ford and the BMC club logo. I can’t reach the BMC website right now (too busy?), so I’m in the dark as to both.

If the BMC club uses a logo that is a knock off of an actual Ford logo, then there’s an issue because one could claim they are using Ford’s trademark to confuse buyers of the calendar into thinking the calendar comes from Ford. That is what trademark law is intended to prevent. And if that’s the case, then BMC needs to change their logo to something original, at which time they should be able to move forward with the calendar.

If, however, Ford is truly claiming that they own the photographs in the calendar, then Ford is absolutely in the wrong and would have their butt handed to them in court.

Most people don’t realize that U.S. courts have ruled photography is First Amendment protected free speech. In the U.S. you have very broad rights in terms of what you can photograph and in terms of selling prints, calendars, etc. as news or artwork. You need release forms only when you use the images as advertising for a business.

For example: if I owned a Ford, I could photograph it and sell prints as fine art for tens of thousands of dollars per print (assuming I could get people to pay that) without Ford’s permission or consideration. I wouldn’t even have to own a Ford. I could photograph your Ford and do the same. I could photograph you in your Ford and do the same! Without your permission! So long as I was on public property at the time, and you were in public view (note “in public view” can include you being on private property) with no reasonable expectation of privacy, it’s fair game. Both fine art street photographers and press photographers have fought and won this battle multiple times. U.S. courts always side with free speech and artistic expression.

What I cannot do without a release is take a photo of you in your Ford and use it in an advertisement implying that you or Ford endorse a business such as “Bob’s Auto Parts”.

So can BMC use a Ford-like logo to sell their calendar? No. Can they use original titles and logos, making it clear that the calendar is not a Ford product, and sell calendars with photos of Fords? Absolutely. Even if some of those photos show Ford’s logos on the car. Even if some of those photos are nothing but the logo on the car.

The Eiffel Tower is a different case because it’s under Paris law. That copyright wouldn’t fly if the tower were in the U.S. But because it’s not in the U.S., U.S. photographers and publishers have to respect Paris law on the matter due to treaties.
dt Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

I can’t believe I said “Paris law”. I was in a hurry when I wrote the above. I ment “FRENCH law.” Doh!
Billy James Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

FORD F ound O n R oad D ead

FORD F ix O r R epair Daily
david Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

FORD Freaking Old Rebuilt Dodge
sm Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

DT has it exactly right regarding copyright law.
Weekly links - 15.1.2008 | Sport through the lens Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 3:14 am

[...] Ford claims rights on photos of their cars: - Slashdot - Adrants - Culture garage [...]
Stern90LX Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 5:27 am

DT, our[the BMC's] Logo looks nothing like any Ford Trademarked symbols. Fords beef was with CafePress. Starting in Sept of 07′ Ford started flagging images of Ford vehicles and claimed it Violates their Trade Dress/Trademarks. The letters forwarded to CafePress and other Ford enthusiast sites all stated that “We were asked by TLO to investigate Cafe Press for impingement. Cafe Press is not a Ford License. Further review of this website found the sale of apparel bearing Ford trademarks. We reviewed the material with FGTL and outside counsel, who concurred and a cease and desist letter was issued on September 28, 2007.”

Another Ford club got this reply from Ford:
“Unfortunately, many of these businesses[refering to Cafe Press] improperly attempt to affiliate themselves with Ford by using Ford trademarks and trade dress (for instance, the depictions or photographs of Ford’s distinctively shaped vehicles) in advertising their products and services.”

Note were they said “trade dress (for instance, the depictions or photographs of Ford’s distinctively shaped vehicles)”

That is a lawyer saying that, and they didn’t do there homework. For legal precedence please see:
http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/IP/trademark/rock_and_roll.htm

Basically Ford cannot enforce Trademark laws on photographs people wish to sell of their own cars. That one case blew that argument out of the water.

The actuality of it is, nothing in the photo’s used in the BMC calender that are Trademark material. They are private photo’s of members cars with the BMC Club Logo which bears nothing in resemblance to Fords emblems.
Nice going Ford!! morons... - TurboBuick.Com Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 10:02 am

[...] a stunt like this. Ford Slaps Brand Enthusiasts, Returns Love With Legal Punch ? Adrants and Ford. Sometimes I think you want to fail! : culture|garage __________________ Take a long ride in a Black [...]
06fordboy Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 10:40 am

HEY DAVID AND BILLY JAMES First On Race Day!!
Whitney Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications.

We’ve been watching this discussion with interest and I’d like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding.

Yesterday we spoke to both Cafe Press and the Black Mustang Club and explained the situation (about the Black Mustang Club’s calendar) to everyone’s satisfaction. Ford has no problem with Mustang or other car owners taking pictures of their vehicles for use in club materials like calendars. What we do have an issue with are individuals using Ford’s logo and other trademarks for products they intend to sell. Understandably, we have to take the protection of our brands and licensing very seriously.

Ford did not send the Black Mustang Club a “cease and desist” letter telling them that they could not use images of their own cars in their calendar. The decision not to allow the calendars to be printed was made by Cafe Press, because we had gotten in touch with them in the past about trademark infringements on products they sold.

The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don’t use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold.

I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials.

I’m looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang (even if mine isn’t black).

Thanks for giving us the chance to have our say.
collin Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

hmmm… this looks like a misunderstanding.

Check out original post on Boing Boing.See Comment #83 :

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html
Shaun Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

But publishing companies sell magazines….
Ryan Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

@collin

Thanks for the link. Whitney also posted here, and as far as the “original post”, you’ll notice our article was written two days before the Boing Boing article was released.
Gene Says:
January 15th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

The disclaimer from Whitney Drake is all well and good, but he does not represent the legal arm of ford and that group needs to make a publc statement under their official organizational title with contact information for those who want to check further.

Most companies of any size that restrict the use of their name, logo, trademarks, features, etc. will provide a specific letter of authorization to “brand loyal” groups. This letter of authorization will provide the guidelines for both organizations. My recommendation is that the BMC apply for specific authorization and relief from the restrictions that are being implied here.
czbill Says:
January 16th, 2008 at 6:27 am

Whitney’s response is nonsensical. Sure, take pictures of your cars for calandars…but be sure not to show any trademarks and if you do, don’t try to sell the calandar. What, give them away? If this is an example of Ford’s communication staff, no wonder Fords will soon be rebadged Chinese specials.
The Broz Says:
January 16th, 2008 at 10:04 am

After the first response by Chris,”Nothing like pissing off your enthusiasts….,” I pulled out my pocket size ‘Good Business Sense’ Bible. I reread the chapter titled, “Don’t Piss On Your Own Wallet.” Maybe the legal department at Ford should read it also.
weblawg.net » Blog Archive » Ford gets confused and shoots itself in the foot Says:
January 18th, 2008 at 3:11 am

[...] Culture Garage: http://culturegarage.com/2008/01/11/ford-sometimes-i-think-you-want-to-fail/ [...]
Nissan owns all of the JDM GT-Rs? : culture|garage Says:
February 4th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

[...] you thought Ford was a little possessive about their cars, don’t buy a Nissan GT-R in Japan. Speed limiters are nothing new, but when [...]
Michael Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

This issue has been resolved already. It was basically a big misunderstanding between Ford, the Calender producers, and the website.
Mustang club calendars Says:
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:38 pm

[...] Initial reports had it that the car company’s lawyers were objecting to fans’ putting out a calendar adorned with pictures they’d taken themselves of their beloved Mustangs. Later, the company said it was fine with the fans’ publishing the photos and calendars so long as they didn’t use the Ford logo. (AdRants, Jan. 14; Culture Garage, Jan. 11). [...]